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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| Shooter, who had been told what we were planning, unleashed his Whim of Iron and declared that Dark Phoenix must be PUNISHED for his heinous act. |
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Did Jim Shooter have even the slightest doubt that Jean Grey was not in any possible way in her right mind when "possessed" by Dark Phoenix this act was committed?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 2
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Did Jim Shooter have even the slightest doubt that Jean Grey was not in any possible way in her right mind when "possessed" by Dark Phoenix this act was committed? •• Important to remember that Jean and Phoenix being two separate entities had not entered the equation at this point. The Phoenix Entity, being already something the Sh'iar feared, possessed Jean. Somehow, Jean's own personality was enough to keep the Phoenix in check, until Mastermind undermined her resolve. This was the ground upon which Shooter was operating: we intended to turn Phoenix into a villain, and we had done that. No turning back. That's why Kurt's suggestion was so brilliant.
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 3
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Guessing Marvel would like to have the adult Jean Grey back among the living, and also guessing that Cyclops and Professor X will be alive again sometime soon.
No idea if they intend to bring her back to become Phoenix, though the name is open at the moment. But it would not surprise me.
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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| ...we intended to turn Phoenix into a villain, and we had done that. No turning back. That's why Kurt's suggestion was so brilliant. |
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Indeed. Before that, though, it seems to me that your and Mr. Claremont's original plan to have the Shi'ar -- failing anyone's ability to "exorcise" Jean of the Phoenix Entity -- "lobotomize" Jean was the only alternative to her death. And committing Jean to a childlike mentality for the rest of her life was "punishment" enough.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 5
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And committing Jean to a childlike mentality for the rest of her life was "punishment" enough.•• But that wasn't the plan. We intended Phoenix to be a recurring villain, with various circumstances unexpectedly unleashing the Force, and the X-Men having to deal with it, while being torn up emotionally, of course. That wasn't good enough for Shooter. He wanted her literally tortured for all eternity. Take from that what you will.
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Ronald Joseph
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 6
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...There was no way they would just sit back and let this happen. Thus, I spoke the words that still reverberate in the Halls of Eternity: "F**k that! I'd rather kill her!"
Hmmm...I wonder if there would have been some way (and if so, how it would have been received) to have then Jean/Dark Phoenix suffer that "tortured for all eternity" fate without the X-MEN knowing. But the reader would know.
Somewhere down the line, someone would revisit the story, of course, but that "What If...?" part of my brain is making me wonder what the results would have been.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 7
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By that time, fans/readers were not content to sit back and "let things happen". For Phoenix to be taken away to be tortured -- not just imprisoned, mind you, but actively tortured -- while the X-Men "didn't know" would have led to Chris and me being "tortured for all eternity" by unending tsunamis of mail.
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Charles Valderrama
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 8
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I enjoyed the "Jean and Phoenix being two separate entities" stories... it was pretty brilliant. Heck, I was fine with Phoenix being a recurring villain for the X-Men.
Unfortunately some writers decided Jean was "too boring" without being Phoenix so they chose to "fix" things, kill her off again.... and here we are.
-C! |
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 9
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If a character is boring the fault lies with the writers, not the character.
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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| We intended Phoenix to be a recurring villain, with various circumstances unexpectedly unleashing the Force, and the X-Men having to deal with it, while being torn up emotionally, of course. |
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 11
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What strikes me in this is that Shooter knew the plans going forward, was okay with them--and then got cold feet, with some warped moralism coming into play on top of it.
This is back in the day when the comics readership skewed a bit younger than it does today.
I don't doubt Shooter wanted Jean tortured for her crimes but WTF?? THAT is the lesson he wants to teach kids? "Lose control to a cosmic force and get tortured FOR ETERNITY because of it"?
Ye gods.
I'd rather have killed her too.
And now Marvel is digging up her grave one more time. Haven't we been here before?
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Paul Kimball
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| Posted: 20 September 2017 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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IF Phoenix and Jean were the same person then I think the point of no return
for me would be when she destroyed a planet with life. How many x-men
villains crimes would look insignificant against that?
I agree though, this story has been re-hashed too many times.
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