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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15973
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'd agree that the protectionist tariff policy is a drag on economic growth and it can be laid at the feet of Trump. I'd disagree with that last line -- economic forecasts are revised (both dowward and upward) all the time and does not mean something exceptional, nor does it mean a change in the cycle.
We were in an expansionary phase. And, as far as we can tell from the hard data, we still are. The most recent GDP data (for the first quarter) showed the US economy growing at an annualised pace of 3.2% (the revised calculation or the same quarter is released on Wednesday and the market is expecting a revision to 3.0%). GDP data is always released with a huge lag, because it's such a complicated and large amount of data to compile. However, it tends to correlate strongly with jobs growth. US nonfarm payrolls grew at a very healthy 263k in April. Everyone is expecting a downturn sometime relatively soon, because we have been in expansion for a decade, but as far as the data is concerned, the US economy is still expanding at a solid pace.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36018
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 2
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Paul Buchanan wrote:
Peter - It's awfully easy to try to make your point when you can leave out important parts of what I said to try to strengthen your argument. Kind of like a straw-man argument. Only worse.For instance I wasn't referring to Matt saying "give me a fucking break" to me. But was instead having been referred to as a "condescending asshole". Somehow missed that part didn't you Pete? Even though it was in the same post. |
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Sorry. What's typical rhetoric among you guys? Snowflake, is it? Didn't know you were so sensitive, so much so that a dialog we had months ago stuck in your craw so much that you had to make reference to it here. It's obvious that what I said struck a chord in you. Hurt your feelers because I called you out on ONLY posting in political threads on a board obviously devoted to an artist when you could, I dunno, go to a bajillion 4Chan and 8Chan threads to do the same?
I know you want to "ding" me for being a mod and ::gasp!!:: having an opinion on your posting habits, but that shit don't fly. Good on ya, though. Hold onto that anger. I'm sure it will serve you really well. I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36018
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Posted: 27 May 2019 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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Peter Martin wrote:
"I'm happy to condescend Matt when it's deserved". Matt then went on to say that you were admitting to being a condescending asshole. Once again (with feeling): the outrage! |
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Facts, Peter. Facts and context. I'll note that when you put it all into context, Paul didn't counter. He couldn't. He knew the truth, but then instead tried to paint himself as the "victim" of the JBF. The poor, put upon Trumper who only extolls the truth while the mean old board beats up on him. We had a name, years ago, for people like Paul: a troll. He doesn't give two shits about JB but has found that posting his shit in specific threads (and ONLY in specific threads as Paul hasn't posted anywhere else) gives him some sort of juice. He can be a soldier. He can be a crusader. And now anyone who disagrees with him is part of an echo chamber. That if they'd only open their "doors" they'd see the light. And it's Paul's mission to post it here. Mods (me) beat up on him, people curse him, others make fun of him. It only adds to the persecution complex and reinforces his "rightness".
Trump recently said he was, quite possibly, the most transparent President in history. HA! So too is Paul the most transparent poster on the board, only in this instance it's true.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 4
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I admit I do feel bad now.
Too often we forget that in between calling other people snowflakes, making fun of their race, appearance, gender and sexuality, not to mention constantly boasting about winning and pumping out a constant stream of falsehoods, Trump and his supporters are human beings just like us.
In an effort to prevent others like Paul coming here and being bullied, could we possibly put up some sort of warning Matt? I slapped together a crude example of what I mean:
Too subtle?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133457
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 5
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It wasn't lack of intelligence that elected Trump, tho that was certainly a factor. It was White fear. And that cross all boundaries, intelligence, income, education, gender, you name it. (Everything but race, obviously.)
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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3413
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 6
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JB wrote:
It wasn't lack of intelligence that elected Trump ... it was White fear. |
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One of the things that was most alarming to me in the run-up (and post-game) of the 2016 election was seeing some friends whose intelligence I've always respected not only go all-in for Trump, but also talk about him and defend him with all of the right-wing media talking points. That fear thing, yeah. It's like he's completely bypassed all of their conscious, trained, analytical thinking and plugged directly into their lizard brains.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 7
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John Byrne wrote:
It wasn't lack of intelligence that elected Trump, tho that was certainly a factor. It was White fear. |
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Joking aside, yes that's true. But at the risk of opening up Pandora's Box, I think fundamentally, the issue is that "Liberals" are smarter than modern-day Republican Conservatives. Note that I vote Conservative here in Australia, but our conservatives are considered "Socialists" by your guys! So I'm not a "bleeding heart liberal" myself.
As this Psychology Today article argues, liberalism is evolutionarily novel, in that the concept of giving a fair chunk of our private resources to genetically unrelated strangers via taxes is not something our ancestors would have done.
In short, it actually takes intelligence and foresight to determine the longer-term benefits of helping others, thus preventing the eventual fragmentation of society, which ultimately leads to conflict and suffering for all.
Trump supporters show none of this sort of foresight or intelligence. You can argue that fear is overwhelming their rational senses, but I'm not sure if that's enough. In terms of supporting harsher immigration laws and the resurgence of racism sure, but where does white fear factor into the way Trump's administration is butchering public education, the environment, health care, heck, even the way they are very unconservatively blowing out the national debt?
If Trump supporters were selectively supporting his isolationist and racist policies, while condemning his general gutting of the economy and the future of all Americans (and the planet!), then I'd understand. As it stands, I can't work out why people like Paul Buchanan who obviously has some level of rational thought just blanket support him.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133457
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 8
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Liberals do tend to be smarter—but that’s what led them to assume no one was dumb enough to vote for Trump!(For the record, I borrow the name, if not the policies, of a Canadian party, and call myself a progressive conservative. Like the way that sounds. “Let us go forward—carefully.")
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 9
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Koroush, I think the areas that are inconsistent regarding long term benefits/drawbacks for subjects like public education, environment, health care, etc. fall to greed. The people butchering these programs, departments and areas are there to exploit their positions and make as money as possible in the process. Of course it could also be complete mismanagement and ineptitude at work. Watching Carson's HUD testimony recently leads me to believe he is just horrible at any managerial/organizational position regardless of where it is located. He may be qualified to operate on a human brain, but getting him to run a fast food restaurant might be too challenging.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31229
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 10
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Oreo’s?
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David Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3099
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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Dr. Carson's elevated profile these past few years has convinced me, in the event I need my skull opened, beforehand I'm definitely asking the brain surgeon if he's a creationist.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 28 May 2019 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 12
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Reading the responses in this group are always good for a laugh. The circle-jerk is now about patting each other on the back telling one another how smart you are. It's like Fredo Corleone spouting off - " I’m smart. Not like everybody says, like dumb. I’m smart and I want respect!" JBF now stands for Just Being Fredos. Honestly, when you have to tell everyone how smart you are, you're probably not all that confident in your self.
Frankly making a blanket statement that liberals are smarter than conservatives, Democrats are smarter than Republicans ,( or visa versa ) should disqualify you from the "smart end" of the column no matter which side you lean politically, or who you think is "smarter". And making such statements, as if that somehow bolsters your reasoning behind your individual political arguments, is ludicrous.
Koroush - Thank you for posting the Psychology Today article. I know you love to find articles that somehow fit your narrative, however poorly thought out or obscure they may be. You're the master of the appeal to authority fallacy.
In this article Kanazawa somehow chooses to define intelligence as being altruistic. Never heard it defined quite that way, but I'll play along. He then states that b/c he believes that liberals are more altruistic (through supporting more government programs that give money to complete strangers), they are therefore more evolutionarily advanced and thus smarter. He then in the same article states as FACT studies that have shown that conservatives give more to charity than liberals. The very definition of altruism as he defines it! But he gets around this by saying that b/c they get to pick and choose where their money is going, it somehow lessens their altruism! Brilliant thinking! He also uses IQ studies that end at "young adulthood". I suppose intelligence and learning stops at 21. It certainly seems to have stopped no later than this for a lot of the members on this board. But I will say that Kanazawa's reasoning was better than your conclusion that Trump is a failed at President based on IMF global projections while ignoring all the other positives I mentioned. But hey, it had fancy charts. And we know how you love those as much as you've logical fallacies.
And those that think I give a tinker's damn about being "bullied" on this forum once again show their ignorance. Don't think you're that important, because you aren't. For the 10th time, I was responding to the question someone asked as to why there aren't more posts supporting Trump in the Forum. Your responses illustrated, and continue to illustrate, my point perfectly. I even gave specific examples of being called an asshole by a moderator -Matt, and called racist, and nazi numerous times by other equally brilliant minds on the board. I don't want sympathy. Couldn't care less. Just pointing out why others may not want to join in to the wonderful discussion and exchange of ideas. And BTW Matt, I'll post a response on whatever I damn well feel like here, be they Trump topics or not. You don't like my arguments, fine. But unlike you I never resorted to calling someone an asshole for stating an opinion. If I had, then I probably shouldn't be here. The Acting Presidential thread has over 100 pages of responses, so it's obviously a hot topic. And you also know nothing about my love of JB's work. I'm old enough to have been buying his Superman run off the racks, and have probably read 90% of his work (in fact other than JKFW, New Gods, and Star Trek books, I can't think of much I haven't read). So stick to drawing conclusions to things you have a clue about - assuming you find something.
And those that keep dredging up Trumps, "fine people on both sides" statement as supporting Nazis, even Jake Tapper isn't buying that anymore. Maybe revisit Trump's numerous statements denouncing nazis and KKK members too.
PS - I sure hope I haven't misspelled any words in this post. I'd hate t be ticketed again by the grammar police and have all of my arguments rendered null and void by a spelling error.
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