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Steve Ogden
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1263
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 1
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Informed buyers? Where is the information coming from to be informed? There needs to be a basis somewhere. The amount paid is unprecedented. I think that there are a lot of folks who have been in this hobby for a while either as a dealer, collector, professional, etc are just as informed as these two. So, if we use the amount paid for a Todd McFarlane cover as the information for us to price the next piece of art we sell, surely notable works by Jack Kirby should start at 250,000 and anything else he has done at 100,00.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 2
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The historical significance of Amazing Spider-Man #328 is that it's Todd McFarlane's last ASM cover and it's the only cover featuring his two signature Marvel characters. I think I was about 13 when that one hit, so I've got a lot of nostalgia for it, plus it was toward the tail end of the Acts of Vengeance storyline, which is a personal favorite. I was surprised to see it go for that much, but the finite number of McFarlane Spider-Man covers (around 50-60 total, counting Marvel Tales and Marvel Age, I'd bet), people who remember his work fondly having a good sense of what their annual disposable income is, the fact that none of Todd's Spawn art is on the open market and that his Spider-Man work rarely trades hands...I guess it was a perfect storm.
Kirby's most in-demand art will have a good shot at topping McFarlane's record, but Kirby's prolific nature actually keeps the prices down on a lot of his work. Rather than be upset about that, take advantage of the lower prices now and get yourself an affordable Kirby page while you can. Most of us can't afford cover art or really nice splash pages, but if you just want a solid 1970s Kirby page that you can admire up close, go for it now before everyone decides that Devil Dinosaur artwork is the next great investment opportunity.
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Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4555
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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Did I misread the article? Both men are in the business of buying and selling, among other things, comic artwork. I don't consider them naive or stupid buyers.
Who knows if they overpaid for the piece? Only time will tell.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 4
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Informed buyers? Where is the information coming from to be informed? There needs to be a basis somewhere.•• Years ago, heck, DECADES ago, I saw an Overstreet style "price guide" for comic art. I flipped thru it, to see how close to reality it was. Most of my stuff seemed to be listed in the ranges I would have expected, so that looked okay. Then my eyes fell upon one small word. A piece of art (not mine) was listed as "rare". Not the artist, mind you. Not the comic the page was from. The page itself. "Rare". Newsflash: No piece of original art is more or less "rare" than any other. There is only ONE of each. As painful as it might be to say, a page of Rob Liefeld's CAPTAIN AMERICA and the Mona Lisa are equally "rare".
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Ian Penman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 469
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 5
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Yes, the particular page is a one-off like the Mona Lisa but Liefield did several hundred Cap pages (I think!) most of which would attract similiar interest to each other.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | 6
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Yes, the particular page is a one-off like the Mona Lisa but Liefield did several hundred Cap pages (I think!) most of which would attract similiar interest to each other.•• If an artist does one page or one hundred thousand pages, it has no bearing on the status of each as a "rare" object. ONE is as rare as it is possible to be. Any less, and we're talking nonexistence!!
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14191
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 7
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I remember the days when JB used to do the auctions at Mid-Ohio. He would hold up some toy that would be marked one of ten thousand. Then he would hold up a page of original art and declare, this is one of one! The sad part is that sometimes the toys sold for more money than the art.
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Steve Ogden
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1263
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| Posted: 02 August 2012 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 8
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Andrew, I am not upset and I never stated I was. I even said they can do what they want with their money.
What I see happening is this hobby being turned into a big money game where it is all about money, value or perceived value in this case. And the status of spending the money.
There will be no room for fans; the ante as been driven up and the fans will be pushed out. The big prices will be paid and they will pat each other on the backs for a job well done. Rooms full of unobtainable stuff.
Still an insignificant cover to me. Nothing of importance. But, I wonder if a recreation of this cover will ever be done. A half a million dollars was paid for that Dark Knight page and Klaus Janson did a nice recreation. For the right amount of money a recreation of that ASM cover might happen.
Edited by Steve Ogden on 02 August 2012 at 7:43pm
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 03 August 2012 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 9
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Yes, we're priced out of cover art from big-name artists, but that's been the case for a while now. On the other hand, we've got Artist's Editions from IDW, eBay and artist's websites and conventions give you the opportunity to buy reasonably priced pages from a lot of your favorite artists.
While investors are tripping over themselves to buy the first million-dollar cover, that's a good time to poke around online and see what a hundred bucks can get you. I bought some nice Gene Colan and Mike Wieringo pages for under $100 in the past year, and I've got a few other artists on my wish list whose art I'll pick up for similar prices next time I've got a little extra cash in my bank account (maybe a nice JB page, come to think of it). I'll probably never own a Kirby cover or a Ditko Spider-Man page, but I've got a Kamandi page and I can keep pestering Scott Dunbier at IDW until we get a Ditko Artist's Edition, so I'll manage.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 03 August 2012 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 10
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Collecting original art is a game of patience. (And for our British readers, no, I don't mean the game Americans call solitaire!)Altho my Studio walls proudly display pages by Kirby, Ditko, Wood, Adams, Kubert and a host of others, many of which set me back a pretty penny, my collection began with two pages. The first is a Russ Heath SGT ROCK page, which I still have, and which, back in 1973, cost me $15. The second was a Neal Adams bridging page from a WITCHING HOUR, also from around 1973, which set me back -- brace yourselves -- $35!! Now, those prices can probably be multiplied by about 20, to get the current dollar value, but still ---- pretty cheap, huh? The journey of a thousand miles. . . .
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Barry Maine
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 June 2012
Posts: 152
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| Posted: 06 August 2012 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 11
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Should artist get some part of the subsequent sale of
their work? Yes.
Is this likely to happen, in any sort of general way? No.
Why not? Because there are too many moronic "collectors"
who think buying a piece for $100, and later selling it
for $1000, but giving 10% to the original artist, means
they have LOST $100, not MADE $800.
*****
By this thought process, should the collectors receive
any recompense from the artist if the collector loses
money on the resale?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 August 2012 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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Should artist get some part of the subsequent sale of their work? Yes.Is this likely to happen, in any sort of general way? No. Why not? Because there are too many moronic "collectors" who think buying a piece for $100, and later selling it for $1000, but giving 10% to the original artist, means they have LOST $100, not MADE $800. ***** By this thought process, should the collectors receive any recompense from the artist if the collector loses money on the resale? •• Sure -- if you can explain to me how that is in ANY WAY the same "thought process".
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