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John Donges Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 204
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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Darren Taylor wrote:
When you boil it down, drawing with "pen & ink" is nothing more than hand writing. The difference is that the shape of a letter conveys the information the viewer needs to recognise a sound or emphisis. |
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Matt Hawes wrote:
I mean, there are artists that you know can draw very well, per se, but don't appeal to you, and then there are "artists" who draw badly. |
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In the context of Darren's theory, I'd liken badly drawn art to someone's horribly crabbed or sloppy handwriting. I couldn't ever get above a B+ in handwriting in school...
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Bill Wiist Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1555
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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Matt Reed: Like the HOUSE OF M cover with Magneto
that was pulled? I don't think you'll find many people
in support of that kind of "art". At least I hope not.
I'm afraid there are lots of people who do support
that sort of thing. What dismays me is the amount of
"art" I'm seeing these days which isn't even
hand-traced, but "traced" using Photoshop filters.
I guess there's skill involved in the design ... but still.
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Craig Markley Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3969
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 3
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Norman Rockwell used photo reference for many of his paintings.
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Eugene Nylander Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 539
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 4
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for Matt Hawkes ~ and yet many of the 'bad' artists have had
large followings.
Darren is probably talking about a shared language. Tastes
vary - the same thing can be applied to music.
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Jeremy Nichols Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 02 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 634
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 5
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Yeah, Bill, the Photohop filter tracing is gaining popularity.
Probably cause it's so easy...
10-12 seconds in Photoshop and my daughter is a Maleev
drawing. Huh.
Talent? hmm...
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Ethan Van Sciver Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 22 February 2005 Posts: 522
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 6
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Brian Miller says: "Ethan, we don't know what the question Neal was answering was. David didn't include his exact phrasing of his question in his post. "
Quite right. But I feel I can deduce what the David's intent was from his opening paragraph, which follows:
"JB,
I thought you might be interested in an email response I received from Neal Adams last week that he said I could share, on a recent controversy involving a current "hot" artist and tracing photo art/light box usage."
Since I know of no possible way in which practicing by copying photographs at home could become a 'recent controversy', much less public information, I have to assume David was referring to an artist who traces 'photo art' and uses a light box in his published work. Therefore, when Neal spins off on a lecture on how tracing photographs is a good thing for educational purposes, I'll go ahead and conclude that the question and the answer don't match.
Edited by Ethan Van Sciver on 23 August 2005 at 3:03pm
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Guest79877180 Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 20 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2387
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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Norman Rockwell used photo reference for many of his paintings.
~~~~~
And a helpful little tool that sign painters use(d) called a mahl stick.
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Robert Cosgrove Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1710
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 8
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Of course, Norman Rockwell conceived the picture in his mind or in rough, posed the models, lit the models, took or supervised the photographs, and then used those for reference--I make no judgment here of someone who traces a photo out of a magazine, but Rockwell was far from that. As for use of photographs, the question for those who complain about Rockwell is, "if I let you use photographs, can you paint a Norman Rockwell"?
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16463
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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Jeremy, I have noticed that Alex Maleev seems to be using that kind of Photoshop filter on photographs, too! Has this been confirmed, though? I always wonder if he's copped to it or not.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16463
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 10
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Eugene Nylander wrote:
for Matt Hawkes(sic) ~ and yet many of the 'bad' artists have had large followings. |
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Too true, too true...
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David Schimmel Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 539
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Posted: 23 August 2005 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 11
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Ethan,
Good point, and now looking back, my question to Neal may not have been
as clear as I should have been (damn, you would think a social worker
would have a better sense of PROCESS!!!).
Here 'tis
On the Millarworld.net website, your comments about lightboxes were
discussed and the use of tracing in art. I'm not sure if they are
using your quotes to back up the point you were trying to make.
Could you clarify, once reading the thread in question?
Soooooooooo, I may follow up, to ask if he meant the former or the
latter as Ethan describes. In fact, I will for sure.
I'll let you know if I get a reply.
David
Edited by David Schimmel on 23 August 2005 at 9:32pm
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Mig Da Silva Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 900
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Posted: 24 August 2005 at 3:58am | IP Logged | 12
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I honestly think that the question was misunderstood, badly phrased, or both.
Tracing, perspective, anatomy -> Essential for learning.
Photo Reference -> Many times, essential for painting; that's why nude modelling exists.
Tracing, lightboxing in professional commissioned works -> unacceptable, unprofessional, non-artistic, and right down fraudulent.
If it includes someone else's copyrighted work -> A criminal affair.
Guys like Greg Land are really pushing and risking it to turn it into a serious lawsuit case. What he is doing is a crime. Period.
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